**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 20 21:51:43 2002 Sep 20 21:51:43 --> You are now talking on #osgc Sep 20 21:51:43 --- Topic for #osgc is Friday 17:00 PST (GMT-8) Sep 20 21:51:43 --- Topic for #osgc set by alriddoch at Fri Sep 20 19:17:00 Sep 20 22:01:24 --> TheMester (TheMester@110.ppp1-4.ski.worldonline.dk) has joined #osgc Sep 20 22:01:55 Sep 20 22:01:57 --> Zongo (~chaneze@t1.intrinsic.com) has joined #osgc Sep 20 22:03:14 I'd like to see more evolving games with personal ideas Sep 20 22:08:33 what kind of help do opensource game developers want? Sep 20 22:12:37 depends on the game I think Sep 20 22:12:49 some games have really horrible graphics/docs/sound .. Sep 20 22:12:59 others lack maps/levels ... Sep 20 22:13:08 others are just too alpha Sep 20 22:13:24 lacking functionality, game not being very userfriendly .. Sep 20 22:14:27 what is the best way to help then? .. funds or contribution Sep 20 22:15:03 the problem is more I think that there's no good central place for opensource games Sep 20 22:15:11 not really a section dedictated to it Sep 20 22:15:33 linuxgames for example is like much other sites just a newssite Sep 20 22:15:37 with info about new games .. Sep 20 22:15:51 there needs to come a freshmeat/sourceforge for games Sep 20 22:16:40 aint there a page called linuxgamedevelopment or something? Sep 20 22:17:24 not very activ .. as I remembered Sep 20 22:19:11 that's what the problem is Sep 20 22:19:17 it is all spread out Sep 20 22:19:21 no central point Sep 20 22:19:38 that central point should have programming resources too Sep 20 22:19:44 There's no single point of failure, to view it from a positive side :) Sep 20 22:19:46 SDL, ... Sep 20 22:22:17 Many big open source projects would be nothing without servers. I think there are more game servers/services to come, also more interconnected games. This will hopefully lead to more web pages. Sep 20 22:34:46 when do the gc start? Sep 20 22:37:02 in 1.5 hours I think Sep 20 22:37:17 look at the topic Sep 20 22:41:35 more than that I suppose Sep 20 22:42:42 it's 1:40 pm PST Sep 20 22:44:56 --> bakemono (~bakemono@sub27-104.member.dsl-only.net) has joined #osgc Sep 20 22:45:32 hey Sep 20 22:45:42 blerg Sep 20 22:45:46 --- bakemono is now known as Bakemono Sep 20 22:45:49 blerg yourself Sep 20 22:46:00 oops made a calculation misstake ... Sep 20 22:46:29 8 pm will be early tomorrow for me then ... Sep 20 22:47:26 * Bakemono checks the time Sep 20 22:48:20 yeah I won't be around either Sep 20 22:51:13 about 5 AM our time .. Sep 20 22:51:28 will be busy a few hours after that too I think Sep 20 22:51:35 but still too earlyy Sep 20 22:51:44 <-- Andre4s has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 20 22:52:17 <-- TheMester has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Sep 20 22:56:00 <-- death-row has quit (brunner.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) Sep 20 22:56:00 <-- xtrax has quit (brunner.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) Sep 20 22:56:00 <-- perrin has quit (brunner.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) Sep 20 22:58:17 --> death-row (~pierre@pierre.club-23.org) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:01:11 <-- Thunderbird (~roderick@sailsup.xs4all.nl) has left #osgc ("Client Exiting") Sep 20 23:06:18 --> alriddoch (~ajr@host213-122-52-229.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:09:43 --> perrin (~perrin@h24-69-30-236.gv.shawcable.net) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:11:11 --> xtrax (~Xtrax@217.144.231.129) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:13:31 --> after (~doj@nandersn-3.memphis.edu) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:16:05 <-- alriddoch_afk has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 20 23:16:37 --> Twingy (Twingy@pcp130963pcs.medfrd01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:17:47 <-- Twingy (Twingy@pcp130963pcs.medfrd01.nj.comcast.net) has left #osgc Sep 20 23:22:54 <-- devusb|laptop has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Sep 20 23:23:39 --> Andre4s (~ask@193.11.61.65) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:25:32 --> gltron (~andreas@dclient217-162-69-192.hispeed.ch) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:32:03 Can anyone here confirm exactly when this meeting is due to start, in hours from now, as there was some confusion in the comments in linuxgames. Sep 20 23:32:41 in 2.5h Sep 20 23:34:03 Okay. Sep 20 23:34:18 --- alriddoch has changed the topic to: Friday 17:00 PDT (GMT-7) Sep 20 23:34:46 <-- Zhark (~Zhark@port301.ds1-ho.adsl.cybercity.dk) has left #osgc ("Client Exiting") Sep 20 23:36:11 --> Zhark (~Zhark@port301.ds1-ho.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:36:56 eek. 2.5? I though 1.5 Sep 20 23:37:10 a bit late for us europeans Sep 20 23:37:16 kinda Sep 20 23:37:19 It certainly is. Sep 20 23:37:35 oh wait, it's 1.5 Sep 20 23:37:54 it slipped from 17h GMT-8 to 17h GMT-7 Sep 20 23:37:56 Who actually called the meeting? Sep 20 23:38:12 I just changed the topic, because of what you told me. Sep 20 23:38:22 <-- Zhark (~Zhark@port301.ds1-ho.adsl.cybercity.dk) has left #osgc ("Client Exiting") Sep 20 23:38:24 --> Zhark (~Zhark@port301.ds1-ho.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:38:48 17h GMT-7 is in 2.5 hours time. Sep 20 23:39:20 Who actually organising the meeting? Sep 20 23:41:01 --> stealth_|clazz (stealth_@ip68-1-229-164.dl.dl.cox.net) has joined #osgc Sep 20 23:41:03 --- stealth_|clazz is now known as stealth_ Sep 20 23:41:45 it's not Sep 20 23:41:56 I am GMT+1 and it's nearly midnight Sep 20 23:42:59 I'm at GMT+1, and its 10:40 Sep 20 23:43:39 it's 10:40 in london Sep 20 23:43:42 GMT Sep 20 23:43:52 No, London is not currently at GMT. Sep 20 23:44:02 London is current on BST, which is GMT+1. Sep 20 23:46:05 http://www.horlogeparlante.com/information.htm?en=1&country=531&cpt=0 Sep 20 23:46:21 Local time and date : 09/20/2002 10:43:52 pm Sep 20 23:47:13 Difference time UTC/GMT +01:00 inc. summer time : +01:00 Sep 20 23:47:31 Local time in London is currently UTC/GMT +1 Sep 20 23:48:27 dang Sep 20 23:48:33 yup you're right Sep 20 23:48:46 Its tricky stuff, which is why I wanted to make sure we got it right. Sep 20 23:49:04 I guess we'll just have to wait until the organisor(s) turn up. Sep 20 23:49:22 whoever this might be Sep 20 23:49:59 <-- stealth_ has quit () Sep 20 23:52:30 I'm right here Sep 20 23:52:41 Yay! Sep 20 23:52:48 --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bakemono Sep 20 23:52:51 what's up? Sep 20 23:52:59 a decent turn out I see Sep 20 23:53:13 Can you confirm when the meeting starts so we can be sure of the timezone? Sep 20 23:53:29 in 2 hours and 15 minutes Sep 20 23:53:57 That is 17:00 local Pacific Time? Sep 20 23:54:06 yes Sep 20 23:54:07 you really didn't think about the europeans, did you? Sep 20 23:54:25 that's like 2 a.m. Sep 20 23:54:32 but do they want to come to the us for a (probably small) convention Sep 20 23:54:42 Organising meetings internationally is hard. There is no time that is easy for everyone. Sep 20 23:55:00 the best thing to do is fuck NZ Sep 20 23:55:16 If its easy for euros and americans, its really tough for asians and australians. Sep 20 23:55:16 the next one will be a euro friendly meeting ,) Sep 20 23:55:42 sure Sep 20 23:55:47 let me get some hands here Sep 20 23:56:02 who would consider going to this potential conference/convention? Sep 20 23:56:02 That's one of the drawbacks of real-time meetings under the current circumstances (earth turning around sun). Sep 20 23:56:04 besides me Sep 20 23:56:18 I am european, and I would consider going to the convention. Sep 20 23:56:31 i would Sep 20 23:56:43 so think of a better time to have another meeting like this Sep 20 23:57:00 um. I probably missed the point completely. I thought this was all virtual Sep 20 23:58:10 no Sep 20 23:58:12 we're here to organize an actual gathering Sep 20 23:58:15 in RL Sep 20 23:58:17 I know the sun hurts you, gltron Sep 20 23:58:21 get banana boat to sponser the event Sep 20 23:58:35 but anyways Sep 20 23:58:37 If your focus is europe and america, the best sort of time would be about 18:00 GMT, which is daytime USA, and evening in Europe. Sep 20 23:58:38 I've got places to be Sep 20 23:58:40 things to do Sep 20 23:58:54 Bakemono: I've been to Texas in July, the sun can do nothing to me Sep 20 23:59:05 * Bakemono is going in august next year :( :( Sep 20 23:59:18 gltron: where abouts do you lay your dirty socks at night? Sep 20 23:59:20 next year SIGGRAPH is in San Diego, duh! Sep 20 23:59:28 siggraph? Sep 20 23:59:30 fill me in here Sep 21 00:00:06 siggraph is the place where academia can bad-mouth game developers and Direct3D users Sep 21 00:00:15 heh Sep 21 00:01:04 I wonder if we can get bill in here Sep 21 00:01:38 kendrick that is Sep 21 00:03:25 Anyone know if Steve Baker is planning to come? Sep 21 00:03:35 steve baker? Sep 21 00:04:04 Author of various Tux games, and plib. Sep 21 00:04:11 ah Sep 21 00:04:22 email him? Sep 21 00:04:50 I should see if Ryan Gordan could drop in Sep 21 00:04:54 That would have been the smart thing to do. Sep 21 00:04:56 :) Sep 21 00:05:10 being the host of many an open source project Sep 21 00:05:28 I was hesitant to start emailing specific people Sep 21 00:05:38 but if you really want me too Sep 21 00:05:47 *backspace* Sep 21 00:06:15 Well, I wasn't saying you should have. I was thinking that I should have. :) Sep 21 00:06:17 and lgp-michael while you're at it Sep 21 00:06:23 --> benDOTc (benc@128.143.137.219) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:06:29 <-- Zhark (~Zhark@port301.ds1-ho.adsl.cybercity.dk) has left #osgc ("Client Exiting") Sep 21 00:06:51 for some reason I see this thing leaning away from open source gaming to the more general topic of linux gaming Sep 21 00:07:00 in which case there's quite a few people I could invite Sep 21 00:07:07 true Sep 21 00:07:11 --> Zhark (~Zhark@port301.ds1-ho.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:07:22 and I have no objections to this generalization Sep 21 00:08:08 In a sense Open Source gaming is a narrow topic, but it is the main reason I am here, and I would welcome a convention that was focused on Open Source, even if it did include some proprietray game developers too. Sep 21 00:08:34 they probably use libraries that are open source Sep 21 00:08:41 how long before we start? Sep 21 00:08:46 Andre4s: about 2 hours Sep 21 00:09:16 We should probably avoid going too deep into topic before everyone has had a chance to arrive. Sep 21 00:09:23 Yeah, just because we're focusing on Open Source doesn't mean that the thoughts of closed-source defelopers (which i'm sure some of us are when not writing open source code) are by no means worthless. Sep 21 00:09:47 <-- death-row (~pierre@pierre.club-23.org) has left #osgc ("OR NULL CSCW ARJ C++ NEG.W ER") Sep 21 00:09:48 they at least know how to make money off it Sep 21 00:10:00 Indeed. Sep 21 00:10:33 I'm working on a closed source linux game Sep 21 00:10:40 as well as various open source projects Sep 21 00:11:37 I wouldn't work on linux stuff, but rather on cross-platform stuff Sep 21 00:12:05 that's cool too Sep 21 00:12:22 I have always thought that MMORPGs are one area where an open-source server would make a lot of sense, and companies could make their money charging for nice clients and for running servers.. It always seemed like a good place to leverage the benefits of Free Software. Sep 21 00:12:23 oky Sep 21 00:12:28 it is now time for me to look for bus fair Sep 21 00:12:47 benDOTc: miguel from the arianne project was in here yesterday Sep 21 00:13:03 you should tell him your thoughts if he hops in Sep 21 00:13:11 Bakemono: will do. Sep 21 00:13:29 gltron: This is implied in many cases. I just think "Linux games" has been coined as a term at some point and is used in general for free games, mostly because the developers use Linux as their platform. Sep 21 00:13:29 He was here earlier today too. Sep 21 00:13:31 and that's exactly the stuff I want people to discuss at this con_____ Sep 21 00:14:07 --- Bakemono is now known as ShakeNBakemono Sep 21 00:16:27 --> stephanh (stephanh@pD904A1EB.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:17:07 --> death-row (~pierre@pierre.club-23.org) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:22:05 --> ^miguel^- (~peacefora@67-SEVI-X45.red.retevision.es) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:22:32 <^miguel^-> Hi Sep 21 00:23:06 <-- Andre4s has quit ("Klienten avslutas") Sep 21 00:23:11 hi ^miguel^- Sep 21 00:24:16 --- ^miguel^- is now known as miguel Sep 21 00:24:24 ^miguel^-: Are you Miguel from Arianne? Sep 21 00:24:59 alriddoch: Yes... and I suppose you are the one from WF, isn't it? Sep 21 00:25:08 Yep, that's right. Sep 21 00:25:18 --> bear (~bear@pcp01441356pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:25:31 I got the idea about the meeting from here Sep 21 00:25:40 hi Sep 21 00:25:58 But I would like to do it more seriously... with an given set of points to talk about Sep 21 00:27:16 Well, as a way to pass some time, if you're interested in the sorts of writings done on gamestudies.org, there's some interesting material linked from the website of a class i'm taking: http://www.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/ http://www.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/http://www.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/http://www.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/http://www.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/http://ww Sep 21 00:27:16 w.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/http://www.virginia.edu/mediastudies/courses/games/ Sep 21 00:27:17 alriddoch: So did bryce quit from WF? Sep 21 00:27:22 Ack, sorry. Sep 21 00:27:37 Some people have suggested that if the convention is in the USA, it would be worth organising a European one, where those who can't afford the travel could go. Sep 21 00:27:39 Little XChat problem there. Sep 21 00:28:06 miguel: I'm not sure, be he doesn't really seem to be involved in leading it any more. Sep 21 00:28:35 I didn't know that... leading this kind of projects is hard, frustrating and really unpleasant Sep 21 00:28:59 miguel: There are complex political issues involved, which are probably best not discussed on a public forum. Sep 21 00:31:33 <-- death-row (~pierre@pierre.club-23.org) has left #osgc ("OR NULL CSCW ARJ C++ NEG.W ER") Sep 21 00:42:13 --> death-row (~pierre@pierre.club-23.org) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:43:27 --- benDOTc is now known as benDOTdinner Sep 21 00:43:53 hi, are there any fixed topics that will discussed today? Sep 21 00:44:34 stephanh: I think no Sep 21 00:45:10 stephanh: Bakemono has proposed that we widen the topic to include proprietary development for Open Source OSs Sep 21 00:46:04 ok, we'll see Sep 21 00:47:05 I think the planned main topic was the organisation of a real life convention. Sep 21 00:48:37 well, actually i expected somewhat else...general discussion about oss game development...not a convention... Sep 21 00:49:32 well, we should at least set a few basic points to talk about Sep 21 00:49:45 not today... but on a later meeting /onvention Sep 21 00:51:06 My main concern is about Open source models of managements, technologies behing Open source and economics on Open Source Sep 21 00:51:24 Include development on technologies :) Sep 21 00:53:09 miguel: I assume you are project member/leader of large project? WorldForge? Sep 21 00:53:45 Arianne Sep 21 00:53:48 stephanh: bear and I are from WorldForge. Sep 21 00:54:01 * bear waves Sep 21 00:54:07 ah Sep 21 00:54:45 What project are you from stephanh? Sep 21 00:55:30 I am mainly just listening :) I started a snowboarding simulation a while back but we are still in the early stages. Nothing important. Sep 21 00:55:54 Now the recruitments are going to take place ;) Sep 21 00:56:54 josef: not me ... Sep 21 00:57:00 I think that we are not here to recruit but to spot common problems and find common solutions Sep 21 00:57:25 it seems that open source project share everything except tips on managing Sep 21 00:57:41 Which would mean to identify the problems first Sep 21 00:57:52 oh, there's one already Sep 21 00:58:21 Well... it is a hell hard to do manage with a team of persons on constant evolution, with lack of training and almost everytime not rewarded Sep 21 00:58:58 Open source management is Murphy worst nightmare :) Sep 21 00:59:02 --> dorje_ (jdorje@pool-141-158-99-241.pitt.east.verizon.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 00:59:15 hi dorje_ Sep 21 01:00:00 josef: hey. I won't be here for too long, I think. Sep 21 01:00:35 dorje_: Too bad. The main point AFAIK is organizing a RL convention. Sep 21 01:02:42 Not too many projects had real-life meetings, isn't it? WF had, Freeciv had, that's all I know (but there might be some more). Sep 21 01:03:58 josef: I suppose you're right. It's unlikely you and I would be able to make the same convention, though. And it'll more likely be in your area than mine (if history is any guide)... Sep 21 01:04:52 josef: As far as I am aware we at WF have never had a full scale meetings, but we have had lots of small ones. Sep 21 01:06:10 --- dorje_ is now known as jdorje Sep 21 01:06:50 --> ajr_ (~ajr@host213-122-22-93.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:07:00 <-- alriddoch has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: ajr_!~ajr@host213-122-22-93.in-addr.btopenworld.com))) Sep 21 01:07:05 --- ajr_ is now known as alriddoch Sep 21 01:07:54 Some game projects are not tightly knit even though they share a source tree... just thinking about the desktop game projects (KDE, Gnome), who hardly exist in project form Sep 21 01:09:16 WF is almost looser than that. Each component effectively has its own source tree, and some are completely independantly developed. Sep 21 01:09:48 --> Bakemono (~bakemono@ptlddslgw6poolC140.ptld.uswest.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:09:55 --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bakemono Sep 21 01:09:56 But there are also common libraries, or are they mostly used by one subproject only? Sep 21 01:10:10 I have returned Sep 21 01:10:45 Hi Bakemono Sep 21 01:11:11 hey, miguel Sep 21 01:11:21 There is one library which is common to almost everything in that language, but we have a large java effort which has no code in common. Sep 21 01:12:08 Bakemono: what is the purpose of this meeting? Sep 21 01:12:48 to organize a conference to discuss open source/linux gaming Sep 21 01:13:14 a real life one? Sep 21 01:14:07 yes Sep 21 01:14:39 ummm, that's a risky thing... Sep 21 01:14:42 well, since that starts only in an hour, we might as well use the time to talk about non-conference related stuff Sep 21 01:15:22 how is it risky? Sep 21 01:16:24 Europeans won't travel to US and US people is not prone to travel to Europe Sep 21 01:17:14 So as alriddoch suggested I think it is a good idea to create TWO conferences Sep 21 01:17:54 I would travel to the US, but most wouldn't, so having two close together would provide the greatest opportunity to meet. Sep 21 01:19:18 close together? Sep 21 01:19:22 you mean timewise? Sep 21 01:19:26 yes Sep 21 01:19:36 one in US and one in europe? Sep 21 01:19:41 yes Sep 21 01:20:05 This is a proposal for discusion, rather than an assertion. Sep 21 01:21:04 indeed Sep 21 01:21:37 Is this being logging? Sep 21 01:21:53 I really need to sleep :) Sep 21 01:21:56 I'm doing a xchat log Sep 21 01:22:03 cool Sep 21 01:22:17 Where it will be published? Sep 21 01:22:26 my website possibly Sep 21 01:22:48 --> yem (yem@port-63-163.jet.net.nz) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:22:53 If everyone agrees, why not. We are hopefully no privacy morons :) Sep 21 01:22:54 I'll probably do some kind of writeup Sep 21 01:23:08 alriddoch: that'd be very cool Sep 21 01:23:35 ok, so before I definitively going to sleep I would like to suggest a few points to include on chats... Sep 21 01:24:07 Bakemono: I guess that means I am commited now. :) Sep 21 01:24:13 indeed Sep 21 01:24:15 :) Sep 21 01:24:27 <-- death-row (~pierre@pierre.club-23.org) has left #osgc Sep 21 01:27:35 --> Theefer (~Theefer@Lsne-CaTV-dhcp-33-178.urbanet.ch) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:28:10 hi Sep 21 01:28:15 hey' Sep 21 01:28:29 <-- TTimo has quit ("QuIRC for *nix - http://quirc.org/") Sep 21 01:28:49 <-- stephanh (stephanh@pD904A1EB.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #osgc Sep 21 01:30:19 <-- jdorje has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Sep 21 01:33:15 when is the GDC in europe this year? Sep 21 01:33:46 It was at the end of August. Sep 21 01:33:53 oh Sep 21 01:34:15 and it was not a patch on the GDC in the US. Sep 21 01:34:59 * bear doesn't follow "patch on" Sep 21 01:35:38 "as good as" Sep 21 01:35:46 * bear nods Sep 21 01:35:47 thanks Sep 21 01:35:50 nothing like as good as. Sep 21 01:36:05 woops ok i don't follow either then Sep 21 01:36:13 * bear chuckles Sep 21 01:37:30 as in "and it was nothing like as good as the GDC in the US." Sep 21 01:37:47 yem: You were basically right. Sep 21 01:37:54 hehe Sep 21 01:38:04 * Bakemono decides to watch some TV Sep 21 01:38:09 I'll be back in about 15 minutes Sep 21 01:38:23 i'd like to go to some of these expos one day Sep 21 01:38:33 not much chance of one appearing in .nz ;) Sep 21 01:38:45 GDC is really expensive, and of debatable value. Sep 21 01:38:58 In particular it is extremely commercial. Sep 21 01:39:36 naturally.. Sep 21 01:40:12 probably not a patch on e3 tho Sep 21 01:40:27 It is perhaps too soon to say, but it is my impression that their choice of speakers is based mostly on the reputation of the speakers, and not the quality of the proposal. Sep 21 01:40:38 ah Sep 21 01:40:43 GDC and E3 are completely different. Sep 21 01:40:57 that happens in shows sometimes - they have to get the "names" to fill the seats Sep 21 01:41:14 E3 is for gamers whereas GDC is for devs, I think ... Sep 21 01:41:44 E3 is supposed to be for publishers and retailers. Sep 21 01:41:55 but you are right that GDC is for developers. Sep 21 01:42:31 Sounds like a great show anyway, must be fun ;) But a bit far away ... Sep 21 01:42:43 Theefer: Where are you? Sep 21 01:42:55 Switzerland ... Sep 21 01:43:12 A good country for EU meeting could be France Sep 21 01:43:50 It is near Germany, UK, Spain, Italy... and well... near to the rest too... a bit far from Sweden, Filand and Norway... but Sep 21 01:44:10 North France, Belgium or Holland. Sep 21 01:44:13 I actually don't know ... but are there many OpenSource Game developpers attending such expos like E3 or GDC ? Sep 21 01:44:35 IMO they are tooo expensive Sep 21 01:44:41 Its difficult to say. Sep 21 01:44:46 Pay just 1000$ for assist Sep 21 01:44:57 also you must pay travel and room Sep 21 01:45:00 There was a roundtable on Open Source at GDC, but I missed it. Sep 21 01:45:24 There were some people from Nexrax there. Sep 21 01:45:33 oh right Sep 21 01:46:01 Theefer: AFAIK some holarse.net people were at the GC in Leipzig. Sep 21 01:46:05 I was really sorry to miss the Open Source roundtable. It was a stupid mistake. Sep 21 01:46:33 I was at GDC too, but I was not even aware of this roundtable Sep 21 01:46:40 Well what about a OSGDC then ? ;) Nekeme people maybe ? :) Sep 21 01:46:45 I met someone from holarse at LinuxTag 2001 Sep 21 01:47:11 Zongo: It was last thing on Friday. Sep 21 01:47:56 Zongo: It was an IGDA session. Sep 21 01:48:21 --> dr_fuzz (the_doc@adsl-65-64-154-66.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:48:37 err, well, I should have read more carefully the time tables Sep 21 01:49:22 That's exactly what I thought. Sep 21 01:50:48 --- benDOTdinner is now known as benDOTc Sep 21 01:51:10 how many people here are in the US? Sep 21 01:51:56 * bear is from Pennsylvania, US Sep 21 01:51:57 * benDOTc is. Sep 21 01:52:16 * Zongo too Sep 21 01:52:24 where would be a good place to hold a conference? Sep 21 01:52:56 or convention Sep 21 01:52:59 or whatever you wanna call it Sep 21 01:53:07 Spain :) Sep 21 01:53:15 since I don't really travel, my preference holds little value Sep 21 01:53:18 Sun, beach, good food, kind people :) Sep 21 01:53:55 If you want Europeans to attend, then east coast would be better than west, as the flights are cheaper. Sep 21 01:54:04 indeed Sep 21 01:54:17 Yeah, i'd prefer East Coast, but most of these things happen out west. Sep 21 01:54:24 but if there's going to be a seperate conference in europe we don't need to worry about that Sep 21 01:55:20 --> P1E (~tgz@209.96.186.69) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:55:28 wow, a real crowd Sep 21 01:55:32 idneed Sep 21 01:55:43 looks like a bunch of those worldforge weirdos =] Sep 21 01:55:53 heh Sep 21 01:55:53 * bear holds up the mirror Sep 21 01:56:08 hi ptooey Sep 21 01:56:15 how's it going, bear / al =] Sep 21 01:56:29 not bad. PyDDR coming along nicely I see. Sep 21 01:56:47 yeah, I guess you probably saw the recent release? Sep 21 01:57:20 yep Sep 21 01:57:23 * bear has finished eating so all is well Sep 21 01:57:24 neato =] Sep 21 01:57:40 I'm working on some crappyass netplay for the next release Sep 21 01:57:53 :) Sep 21 01:58:22 netplay - boy you are asking for trouble aren't ya? Sep 21 01:58:24 --> salvia (~coma@203-79-95-235.apx0.paradise.net.nz) has joined #osgc Sep 21 01:58:28 haha Sep 21 01:58:34 nah, netplay should be a fun feature Sep 21 01:58:46 I'm already toying with twisted, it seems to fit in ok Sep 21 01:58:47 nothing like lag in a music based game to up the enjoyment Sep 21 01:59:00 bear - the neat thing is, I don't really have to worry about that. Sep 21 01:59:19 local lan only? Sep 21 01:59:26 nope, internet play will be supported Sep 21 01:59:49 but the local client will display what's going on locally and the remote client will just send events, nothing else Sep 21 01:59:56 * bear realizes that this isn't the spot to talk shop with ptooey :) Sep 21 02:00:11 --> jms (~jms@132.181.3.194) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:00:20 Some insight in other game projects is always nice. Sep 21 02:00:21 --> jdorje (jdorje@pool-141-158-97-206.pitt.east.verizon.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:00:54 see, at the beginning of a dance, say, all the remote end has to do is tell the other client what mode it's playing in Sep 21 02:01:03 is it 5 yet? Sep 21 02:01:11 ah, so that the only events you have to report are "beat matched" and "beat missed by so-and-so ms"? Sep 21 02:01:14 for example, I think it will be sent as "play Sep 21 02:01:14 so this isn't competitive play then? Sep 21 02:01:41 Bakemono: Yes, it is Sep 21 02:01:48 ok Sep 21 02:01:50 bear - well, that part comes next. since obviously there is always going to be some sort of lag, period, the client receiving the event then just compares it against its local list of steps Sep 21 02:01:59 let me call this meeting of hooligans to order Sep 21 02:02:04 --> Teh_Lonewolf (~dan@ip68-11-189-114.br.no.cox.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:02:10 bear - I can discuss it more in #pyDDR if you want. Sep 21 02:02:11 meh Sep 21 02:02:14 hehehe Sep 21 02:02:18 I'll give people 5 minutes to show up Sep 21 02:02:31 haha Sep 21 02:02:39 oh, or I'll bastardly chat more in here if people want me to Sep 21 02:02:42 * P1E laughs Sep 21 02:02:48 Bakemono: Based on my previous experience of irc meetings, some will be up to 15 minutes late. Sep 21 02:02:56 yeah Sep 21 02:02:58 screw 'em Sep 21 02:03:05 haha Sep 21 02:03:14 is someone logging for that one guy that wanted it logged? Sep 21 02:03:17 that's what logs are for :) Sep 21 02:03:40 ok Sep 21 02:03:45 Place on the title where the log will be :) Sep 21 02:03:46 it's been 5 minutes Sep 21 02:03:55 I'm scp'ing it onto my server from time to time already :) Sep 21 02:03:59 I will at the end of the meeting if someone reminds me Sep 21 02:04:05 josef - so you're logging already? Sep 21 02:04:10 shit! Sep 21 02:04:19 anyways Sep 21 02:04:22 i am Sep 21 02:04:31 it seems to me 75% of the people in here are idle Sep 21 02:04:31 ok, just so long as we've got a logger or two we're set =] Sep 21 02:04:31 * bear logs everything Sep 21 02:04:32 Could we ask everyone to say who they are, as many of us have not met before. Sep 21 02:04:36 /AFK Sep 21 02:04:38 no I Sep 21 02:04:52 The irrelevant sections before/after the main chat can be cut in the official location. Sep 21 02:04:57 alriddoch: sure Sep 21 02:05:00 let's get some order here Sep 21 02:05:06 * Bakemono looks around for a small wooden mallet Sep 21 02:05:06 Miguel, from Spain, project leader of Arianne Sep 21 02:05:45 Al Riddoch from the UK, "Lead Programmer :)" of the WorldForge project. Sep 21 02:05:48 my real name's Sam Yatchmenoff, just some dude from Portland, Oregon who is entertained by creating entertainment Sep 21 02:06:05 I'm Brendan, P2E, or theGREENzebra, Virginia USA, the pyDDR guy and also musician for several other projects Sep 21 02:06:13 Zach, from Aotearoa, ex loki fanboy, newbie developer. Sep 21 02:06:15 and I'm lead programmer of the proteus rpg engine Sep 21 02:06:26 Josef, from Germany, hacking on various bits&bytes at GGZ Sep 21 02:06:33 Jason, from Eastern USA (Pittsburgh); I work on GGZ. Sep 21 02:06:50 --> jwr- (~jwr@hsa252.pool001.at101.earthlink.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:06:55 I am a fly on the wall Sep 21 02:06:58 Could we have a URL for GGZ? Sep 21 02:07:05 http://ggz.sf.net Sep 21 02:07:09 Bear, aka Mike Taylor, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US - Infrastructure wog and database hacker Sep 21 02:07:32 <-- jwr- (~jwr@hsa252.pool001.at101.earthlink.net) has left #osgc Sep 21 02:07:44 Theefer, game designer of Milcis [a closed source game ... an old mistake ...], but much more interested in os development, hopefully. Sep 21 02:08:36 * bear adds on "of the WorldForge project" Sep 21 02:09:53 with that outa the way Sep 21 02:10:04 * miguel is near to fall asleep over the laptop... so he will write several ideas and will read the log tomorrow Sep 21 02:10:27 have at it, miguel Sep 21 02:10:35 how many people outside of the US would come to the US for the conference? Sep 21 02:10:43 Not me Sep 21 02:10:47 I would. Sep 21 02:10:57 me neither Sep 21 02:11:03 if cheap accomodation was available. Sep 21 02:11:21 ok Sep 21 02:11:37 how many people IN the US would come? Sep 21 02:11:48 I'd surely try to make it. Sep 21 02:12:08 distance is relative, but I drove to NY for more than one con occasion Sep 21 02:12:24 P1E: where do you live? Sep 21 02:12:30 I would come Sep 21 02:12:32 Virginia. NY is about 8 hours driving. Sep 21 02:12:33 --> zakk (~zakk@maxtnt03-258.phlpa.fast.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:12:52 hi Sep 21 02:12:57 where is my open source game cube? Sep 21 02:13:06 --> Alkini (~alkini@c68.113.232.206.stp.wi.charter.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:13:08 10 hours is about my limit, and I'd probably try to fly if it's longer Sep 21 02:13:11 --> Chunky_Ks (chunky@gamehenge.icculus.org) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:13:13 --> treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:13:16 wow Sep 21 02:13:16 --> pille (AC14EE18@nat-wohnheime.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:13:21 cool Sep 21 02:13:21 whoa, influx Sep 21 02:13:22 yem: I'm impressed Sep 21 02:13:27 damn close to 15 minutes Sep 21 02:13:33 all three people who ply games in linux have turned up Sep 21 02:13:35 p0rt half life plz Sep 21 02:13:39 bear / al : right on the money =] Sep 21 02:13:40 * Bakemono is willing to go anywhere he can drive Sep 21 02:13:46 plz port half life, kthx Sep 21 02:13:49 zakk, Alkini, Chunky_Ks, treke, pille: We have already started. Would you care to introduce yourselves? Sep 21 02:13:52 --> paulz (~paulz@palantir.station.sony.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:14:01 alriddoch: I'm a troll. Sep 21 02:14:12 I'm also a troll, but treke, Chunky_Ks, and I work on the lgfaq Sep 21 02:14:18 and I ported OES to linux Sep 21 02:14:18 alriddoch: I am Al from LinuxGames(.com) Sep 21 02:14:18 hi paulz, have a seat and introduce yourself if you'd like to discuss the con Sep 21 02:14:19 Alkini: i'm pille, top 5 player of freeciv *g* Sep 21 02:14:26 * Chunky_Ks is the guy that wrote that unrealI installer a while ago Sep 21 02:14:27 Chunky_Ks haxed openut to do unreal1 Sep 21 02:14:31 tyes Sep 21 02:14:32 I'm just here to idle, mostly :-) Sep 21 02:14:32 Hello, I'm Paul Zastoupil, I host Freeciv Sep 21 02:14:38 hmmm Sep 21 02:14:40 oh Sep 21 02:14:43 I also run timedoctor.org Sep 21 02:14:43 :> Sep 21 02:14:52 * Chunky_Ks wonders if he's accidentally arrived in #alcoholicsanonymous Sep 21 02:14:53 that doesn't count zakk Sep 21 02:14:57 sure it does Sep 21 02:15:01 we make fun of some open source games Sep 21 02:15:12 and crusader Sep 21 02:15:15 I do loki_setup's for a number of games, too Sep 21 02:15:17 hah, exactly Sep 21 02:15:23 Everyone elses introductions will be in the logs. Sep 21 02:15:33 indeed Sep 21 02:15:46 should we put a running log url from josef in the topic? Sep 21 02:15:47 let's talk about what could happen at this conference Sep 21 02:15:49 OK. All you i.o guys stop trolling and please sound serious Sep 21 02:15:55 P1E: that'd be cool Sep 21 02:16:26 josef - is your log publically available? Sep 21 02:16:27 Bakemono: we could make a tour through the city, look into a museum and drink after that 2 beers *g* Sep 21 02:16:35 http://mindx.dyndns.org/ggz/osgc/ (it's delayed though - it's too late in the night for a nifty tail -f solution) Sep 21 02:16:36 .. Sep 21 02:17:05 <-- P1E has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 21 02:17:05 --> Jag (~olson@ip68-0-30-164.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:17:38 we could showcase the latest greatest open source projects Sep 21 02:17:44 <-- salvia has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Sep 21 02:17:47 --> P1E (~tgz@209.96.186.69) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:17:50 get a DDR setup, of course Sep 21 02:18:03 Dance Dance Revolution? Sep 21 02:18:05 FWIW we just got through with a Freeciv conference Sep 21 02:18:05 yes Sep 21 02:18:06 --- P1E has changed the topic to: current channel log is at http://mindx.dyndns.org/ggz/osgc/ - please read it to catch up. thanks! Sep 21 02:18:08 pyddr presumably Sep 21 02:18:17 have a whole stack of alpha boxes on hand to, uh.... hold the doors open? Sep 21 02:18:24 zakk: of course Sep 21 02:18:25 yeah, I can supply a pc with pyDDR, possibly two Sep 21 02:18:45 --> joshua (~joshua@pool-138-89-44-247.mad.east.verizon.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:18:56 --> raistlin (~rafael@user94.codehost.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:18:57 --> ^miguel^- (~peacefora@179-SEVI-X1.red.retevision.es) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:19:07 cool Sep 21 02:19:08 the question is, what can a conference provide that a good mailing list cannot? Sep 21 02:19:09 since netplay will be implemented soon, I'm sure we could even have a tournament if anyone's interested in such a thing. Sep 21 02:19:31 a metaserver with high scores would be cool for pyddr Sep 21 02:19:34 <^miguel^-> sorry... but before I go to sleep I would like to request considering this: Sep 21 02:19:35 <^miguel^-> My main concern is about Open source models of managements, technologies behing Open source, code problems on open source. Sep 21 02:19:36 <^miguel^-> Open source management includes IMO models, implementations, enforcing, webinterfaces, methods of communication. Sep 21 02:19:36 <^miguel^-> Technologies on Open Source games,... well, what are you using? IPv6, XML, CORBA, .NET, XP, UML, Java,... Sep 21 02:19:36 <^miguel^-> And problems that you have found while coding on Open source... Sep 21 02:19:36 <^miguel^-> About meeting place, I would only assist to an European meeting for several reasons, but mainly is price. Sep 21 02:19:40 gltron: An opportunity to get drunk together, and talk informally. Sep 21 02:19:42 we should probably consider having several tracks for people with different mindsets of cons. Sep 21 02:19:43 wow Sep 21 02:19:45 he's a fast typer Sep 21 02:19:50 <^miguel^-> :) Sep 21 02:19:52 zakk - this is planned, actually =] Sep 21 02:19:55 <^miguel^-> I go to bed Sep 21 02:19:58 <^miguel^-> See you tomorrow Sep 21 02:20:15 P1E: cool :> Sep 21 02:20:18 gltron: I chance to meet some people in person Sep 21 02:20:22 good night, ^miguel^- Sep 21 02:20:25 P1E: Tracks are difficult to manage, and it seems unlikely we would have enough presentable material to justify it. Sep 21 02:20:29 gltron: build some better dev-dev relationships Sep 21 02:21:01 I really enjoy physical interaction. Maybe not everyone enjoys being able to shake the hand of certain developers, etc, but I would. Sep 21 02:21:03 gltron: and have some hardcore long discussions about serious topics Sep 21 02:21:10 like opensource dev tools Sep 21 02:21:32 I wonder how many different metaservers exist. I know half a dozen projects alone with some. (ok, I'm biased here) Sep 21 02:21:38 and a chance to get lgp-michael really drunk so he spills his secrets Sep 21 02:21:43 ha Sep 21 02:21:50 * P1E chuckles Sep 21 02:21:52 * Chunky_Ks doubts very much that lgp-michael would turn up Sep 21 02:22:00 The opportunity to meet face to face and have frank discusions, preferably over beer, should not be underestimated. Sep 21 02:22:00 given he's in England Sep 21 02:22:05 mmmm Sep 21 02:22:06 beer Sep 21 02:22:23 al Sep 21 02:22:29 did i hear beer? Sep 21 02:22:31 alriddoch: exactly! Sep 21 02:22:38 sorry, funny highlight list in my client Sep 21 02:22:40 <-- ^miguel^- has quit (Client Quit) Sep 21 02:22:52 I'm messing up everybody's nick-completion Sep 21 02:22:57 indeed Sep 21 02:23:02 I fear the beer alone won't convince too many europeans to fly a couple of thousand miles Sep 21 02:23:07 * zakk needs artists and coders... Sep 21 02:23:07 I think patterning our con after other cons has pros and cons, but the fact that we're an opensource gaming con already makes us different from the others Sep 21 02:23:17 gltron: nope, it wasn't enough to get them to Amsterdam Sep 21 02:23:19 zakk: that's another topic for serious discussion Sep 21 02:23:20 gltron: especially if it's American macro-brew Sep 21 02:23:23 err Sep 21 02:23:25 half of it Sep 21 02:23:27 the artists part Sep 21 02:23:35 paulz: what was in Amsterdam? Sep 21 02:23:46 gltron: a freeciv developer and user con Sep 21 02:23:46 gltron: FUADEC http://www.freeciv.org/fuadec/ Sep 21 02:23:47 I think having a few panels during a certain timeframe of day would probably be a good idea, and of course a gaming room for gamers. Sep 21 02:23:58 pille was there Sep 21 02:24:00 paulz: ah, rather narrow topic then Sep 21 02:24:01 so was I Sep 21 02:24:12 P1E: yeah Sep 21 02:24:19 attracting developers is important, but clearly we have quite a few here, so we should also focus on attracting end-users as well. Sep 21 02:24:24 sorry for being really busy, but was anything mentioned about a location? Sep 21 02:24:35 paulz - not yet. Sep 21 02:24:54 paulz: I think we'll talk about that later Sep 21 02:25:16 well, thats pretty much the most important thing for many people (including me) Sep 21 02:25:20 if anyone needs documentation help, the lgfaq is interested in acquiring more questions/answers relating to free, open source games, as well as closed Sep 21 02:25:27 We should not assume that it would be limited to people present here. This meeting was short notice, and very lightly publicised. Sep 21 02:25:30 i can't go far for a while http://www.zastoupil.org/babyz/ Sep 21 02:25:33 paulz: where are you located? Sep 21 02:25:47 San Diego :( Sep 21 02:25:48 alriddoch: I know, I apologize Sep 21 02:25:48 I think our primary focus should first be what we can do at this con, and if we can come up with enough things, it'd be good to set a location and discuss things like costs and soforth then Sep 21 02:25:56 paulz: california is a possibility Sep 21 02:26:03 but there are a load of people who'd prefer the east coast Sep 21 02:26:04 well, the weather will cooperate :) Sep 21 02:26:06 Yes, notice of the current meeting should be spread to other game projects. Sep 21 02:26:15 --> jvalenzu (jvalenzu@user-11fa80m.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:26:21 why not just get a couple booths for projects at LWCE? Sep 21 02:26:23 It seems to me that this is putting the cart in front of the horse. I'd like to see a stronger, more original and active open source game developer community before we all get together in one place. Sep 21 02:26:23 they're free Sep 21 02:26:37 Bakemono: This is okay for a cross-section, be we would need to put serious effort into spreading the word for the convention itself. Sep 21 02:26:43 and it goes to both coasts each year :> Sep 21 02:26:44 Or rather, before we worry about having a conference. Sep 21 02:27:14 alriddoch: I don't think it'd be very challanging to get the word out to the masses Sep 21 02:27:18 whew - caught up. Sep 21 02:27:27 /join #icculus.org Sep 21 02:27:31 I think a specialized mailing list (that deals with lack-of-tools, setups, cross-platform woes, art) might be useful Sep 21 02:27:38 Bakemono: The trick is to get slashdotted at exactly the right time. Sep 21 02:27:48 the existing mailing lists are already swarmed with beginner C questions Sep 21 02:27:52 and what time is that? Sep 21 02:28:05 jvalenzu: which ones are there? Sep 21 02:28:10 sdl Sep 21 02:28:12 er Sep 21 02:28:18 gltron: The lgdc mailing list is pretty quiet as it is, without dividing into into more specialised mailing lists. Sep 21 02:28:52 maybe it needs some advertising? I'm not on that list, for example Sep 21 02:29:08 The lgdc list seems to follow tides: there's a discussion here and then, but that's about it :( Sep 21 02:29:26 but the discusions are usually on topic. Sep 21 02:29:34 it seems we have some mixed views here Sep 21 02:29:35 speaking of topic.. Sep 21 02:29:59 some people think a conference would be no better than a healthy mailing list Sep 21 02:30:09 Okay, i'm gonna propose something very contrary to the majority of open source philosophy: how about a mailing list/website/IRC channel that is restricted to more serious issues than, "I want to write Quake4. What do i need to learn?" Sep 21 02:30:13 what are people's thoughts on this? Sep 21 02:30:32 I think you need an open source project which targets windows Sep 21 02:30:33 Bakemono: its an addon to the mailinglist Sep 21 02:30:40 I prefer real-life meetings (even though I'm a geek) because they're highlights compared to usual development Sep 21 02:30:46 I think a con is a reason for people to get together and get what they can't get out of a mailinglist from talking to others at the con. Sep 21 02:30:56 indeed Sep 21 02:31:11 Bakemono: I think there is good value in having a conference if there are enough developers interested in attending. Sep 21 02:31:21 No offense meant to them, but whoever thinks that a mailinglist is better than a con are welcome to stick to their mailing lists. Sep 21 02:31:29 heh Sep 21 02:31:30 Bakemono: A handfull of developers and a load of gamers would be much less valuable. Sep 21 02:31:50 I would imagine the majority of attendees would be developers Sep 21 02:31:56 from the turnouts of this meeting Sep 21 02:31:58 But at the same time, those attending and organising the con should make their convention appealing to people and come up with reasons their con will be attractive versus said mailinglist Sep 21 02:32:03 Conference delegates should be strongly enrourage to bring a prepared presentation of their work. Sep 21 02:32:05 or aspiring developers Sep 21 02:32:18 alriddoch: excellent idea Sep 21 02:33:07 We should encourage as many developers to come as possible, but I don't think we should leave gamers out completely Sep 21 02:33:17 keep in mind that they are the ones that will be playing / supporting our software Sep 21 02:33:27 The UK Unix Users Group organise a Linux Developers Conference where there is a small charge for delegates, and no charge for speakers. Sep 21 02:33:30 I think we should have a seperate meeting to discuss date/location of the conference Sep 21 02:33:38 like a week from today or something Sep 21 02:33:44 --> tdb30_ (~chatzilla@dsl081-143-042.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:33:45 This seems to work well to encourage many people to speak. Sep 21 02:33:45 and advertise it Sep 21 02:33:57 alriddoch - sounds like a good call to me Sep 21 02:34:00 P1E: in open software there is a smooth transition between gamers and developers Sep 21 02:34:17 sort of Sep 21 02:34:28 pille - you mean in transition from gamer to developer? Sep 21 02:34:37 I agree Sep 21 02:35:16 Its really hard for me to make this time. I would be easier if it was even just a couple of hours earlier. Sep 21 02:35:23 the problem when you encourage people to speak is that they do Sep 21 02:35:24 yeah Sep 21 02:35:28 what exactly are people expecting to achieve at a con? Sep 21 02:35:31 alriddoch: I'm sure we can work that out Sep 21 02:35:32 If it would be easier to make it earlier at the weekend, perhaps that would be best? Sep 21 02:35:54 do they want to trade developer stuff? Sep 21 02:36:01 more towards the gaming stuff? Sep 21 02:36:03 does anyone have an aversion to an earlier meeting? Sep 21 02:36:13 (for next time, that is) Sep 21 02:36:15 I think the goal should be to raise $2,000,000 for an open source project, like Dark Brocade Sep 21 02:36:21 haha Sep 21 02:36:26 joe: troll Sep 21 02:36:29 Chunky_Ks: a chance to talk in person about serious issues in the open source game development community Sep 21 02:36:32 that way you can hire artists and pay a developer to make an open source game Sep 21 02:36:34 I'm not trolling Sep 21 02:36:41 jvalenzu: too late they bought Blender with that money Sep 21 02:36:45 jvalenzu: I'll work! Sep 21 02:36:48 if you want an open source game, pay for it Sep 21 02:36:51 damn Sep 21 02:36:58 hold on Sep 21 02:37:15 in all seriousness, what do people consider to be the current "serious issues" in open source game devel? Sep 21 02:37:23 artists. Sep 21 02:37:24 the lack of tetris clones Sep 21 02:37:26 haha Sep 21 02:37:29 what zakk said Sep 21 02:37:33 and dev tools Sep 21 02:37:36 like modellers Sep 21 02:37:37 why not just start a company? Sep 21 02:37:38 Chunky_Ks: I think 3D drivers are a really serious issue. Sep 21 02:37:39 uh Sep 21 02:37:44 raistlin: already did Sep 21 02:37:46 raistlin: good idea Sep 21 02:37:47 there are a billion modellers Sep 21 02:37:47 heh Sep 21 02:37:49 alriddoch: I have an nVidia Sep 21 02:37:52 all I need is $2,000,00 Sep 21 02:37:55 nvidia cards have great drivers Sep 21 02:37:55 add a 0 Sep 21 02:38:00 that even come with headers Sep 21 02:38:01 Bakemono: who's dictator? Sep 21 02:38:04 that's 2,000 per lunix user Sep 21 02:38:05 Chunky_Ks: Thats the only card with a decent driver. Sep 21 02:38:14 I know Sep 21 02:38:16 can we get some of this blatent trolling to stop? Sep 21 02:38:20 jvalenza and zakk make that private! Sep 21 02:38:23 which great games like glaxium use Sep 21 02:38:27 raistlin: of this meeting? Sep 21 02:38:30 but why do you need mode decent drivers? Sep 21 02:38:34 serious Sep 21 02:38:39 I don't want to start kicking people Sep 21 02:38:40 at the moment, you can buy an nvidia card Sep 21 02:38:43 and it works Sep 21 02:38:45 no, no... this sounds interesting Sep 21 02:38:51 where is the planned meeting? Sep 21 02:38:55 the issue is tools, not drivers Sep 21 02:38:59 * Chunky_Ks is not trolling. - I'm serious Sep 21 02:39:02 raistlin: we haven't decided yet Sep 21 02:39:09 Chunky_Ks: let's talk about the conference Sep 21 02:39:11 Los Angeles? Sep 21 02:39:13 yes. Sep 21 02:39:14 not nvidia's drivers Sep 21 02:39:15 good idea Sep 21 02:39:18 Pasadena Sep 21 02:39:19 raistlin: it's a possibility Sep 21 02:39:24 of course Sep 21 02:39:29 then we could go to the Rose Bowl Sep 21 02:39:31 and Madres Sep 21 02:39:32 Santa Monica, please Sep 21 02:39:32 I'm asking what you want to actually achieve by having a confrerence Sep 21 02:39:33 alaska's a possibility Sep 21 02:39:37 alaska Sep 21 02:39:44 probably as many lunix users there as anywhere else Sep 21 02:39:46 Chunky_Ks: I answered you Sep 21 02:40:05 joe rules linux gaming Sep 21 02:40:21 <-- miguel has quit (No route to host) Sep 21 02:40:45 ok. Sep 21 02:40:48 the artist issue Sep 21 02:40:51 yeah Sep 21 02:40:56 you need to find people who're good artists Sep 21 02:40:57 that's something to talk about at a conference Sep 21 02:41:09 I think the artist issue relates to funding Sep 21 02:41:19 if you had funding for an open source project, you could hire artists Sep 21 02:41:22 I think the artist issue relates to the tools being crap Sep 21 02:41:23 I think it's more about direction Sep 21 02:41:44 the artists need an opportunity to create art, but they don't want to be ordered around Sep 21 02:42:14 Chunky_Ks: open source gaming doesn't require open source tools Sep 21 02:42:17 gltron: I would think that open source would be an attraction, then? Sep 21 02:42:38 --> ev0lyeti (~yani@203-109-153-116.static.ihug.co.nz) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:42:43 are we forcing the artists to use open source tools? Sep 21 02:42:45 how about creating projects where the end users can submit artwork, if possible? Sep 21 02:42:48 good point Sep 21 02:42:58 I think open source has failed to recruite all those artists working on quake/half-life/whatever mods Sep 21 02:43:02 Bakemono: It seems that too many people have come here with the intent to discuss issues, and we really need to schedule a new meeting more clearly define to discuss the time and place for a con. Sep 21 02:43:02 the thing is, most end users aren't any good either Sep 21 02:43:15 alriddoch: yeah Sep 21 02:43:24 let me reiterate the intent of this meeting Sep 21 02:43:31 we're here to discuss a conference Sep 21 02:43:41 not linux gaming Sep 21 02:43:42 oh Sep 21 02:43:44 or developement Sep 21 02:43:47 or anything of that sort Sep 21 02:43:51 what's wrong with getting booths at lwce? Sep 21 02:43:54 so where is the conference Sep 21 02:44:07 jvalenzu: that's a topic of discussion Sep 21 02:44:07 they're free, and on both coasts Sep 21 02:44:13 which may come up sooner or later Sep 21 02:44:27 national tetris clone convention Sep 21 02:44:31 if the whole point is discussing where the conference is we could resolve this in 5 minutes Sep 21 02:44:39 Pasadena, this Sunday Sep 21 02:44:43 joshua: no trolling _please_ Sep 21 02:44:49 jvalenzu: everyone bring gifts! Sep 21 02:44:53 sorry its in my blood Sep 21 02:44:57 jvalenzu: there are other things to discuss Sep 21 02:44:59 like what Sep 21 02:45:05 I think it already boiled down to an undecided vote west/east cost and the conclusion that it's too far for the europeans Sep 21 02:45:10 like what would happen at the said conference Sep 21 02:45:22 so the idea was mentioned to hold an european conference at the same time Sep 21 02:45:26 zakk: A booth at an expo is not really the same as a conference. Sep 21 02:45:27 Bakemono: have you determined a date? Sep 21 02:45:31 raistlin: no Sep 21 02:45:37 that's why we're having this meeting damn it Sep 21 02:45:39 * P1E catches up Sep 21 02:45:45 to decide these things Sep 21 02:45:47 alriddoch: I don't think there are enough people for a conference Sep 21 02:45:52 are we talking days, months, years? Sep 21 02:46:00 Where in Europe is the question for us. There are quite a few countries I haven't been to yet :) Sep 21 02:46:00 for anyone that doesn't know, we have JUST decided that a con might be a good IDEA Sep 21 02:46:01 at least, enough people with money to rent a hotel area Sep 21 02:46:04 or what-have-you Sep 21 02:46:04 months, preferably Sep 21 02:46:05 get people like raven that use openAL in their games to help sponsor it Sep 21 02:46:19 within a few months is LWCE (NY) Sep 21 02:46:20 zakk: I think there are enough people; the problem is communication. Before thinking about a conference, that should be addressed. Sep 21 02:46:43 (err, not before *thinking*. But before acting.) Sep 21 02:46:59 I knew I'll be there with some other linux people... I'm sure I can get Ryan in on it Sep 21 02:47:08 NY? No thanks Sep 21 02:47:16 The cheapest way to hold a conference here would be using University premises, but you can only do that during summer vacation, which is now over. Sep 21 02:47:19 you get blown up there Sep 21 02:47:21 jvalenzu: tell Activision you have to go for R&D Sep 21 02:47:24 raistlin: we (i.o) are having a booth at lwce anyway Sep 21 02:47:26 good idea Sep 21 02:47:33 hey zakk Sep 21 02:47:34 booths at lwce are a recipe for being ignored Sep 21 02:47:34 josef: depends on the people, germany/france lend themselves as having a) developers and b) being somewhat central Sep 21 02:47:38 raf Sep 21 02:47:49 the thing is, europe isn't the USA Sep 21 02:47:53 so it doesn't matter Sep 21 02:47:58 haha Sep 21 02:47:59 and none of us US slobs can afford to fly there Sep 21 02:48:03 yeah Sep 21 02:48:12 especially those of us with diapers to change, etc.. Sep 21 02:48:15 and we created the internet Sep 21 02:48:16 gltron: I always like traveling out of this country, but then again, I don't care that much. Sep 21 02:48:19 I suspected chaos would be drawn out of #i.o Sep 21 02:48:29 I wouldn't mind going to Spain Sep 21 02:48:33 josef: where are you? Sep 21 02:48:38 I'll go if codehost will sponsor me! Sep 21 02:48:39 :> Sep 21 02:48:42 how about the US location? Sep 21 02:48:45 gltron: "somewhat central", unfortunately Sep 21 02:48:49 Pasadena? Sep 21 02:48:53 <-- joshua (~joshua@pool-138-89-44-247.mad.east.verizon.net) has left #osgc ("Ex-Chat") Sep 21 02:48:55 maybe Sep 21 02:48:56 (nearest bigger city) Sep 21 02:48:59 jvalenzu: where, exactly, is that? Sep 21 02:49:05 southern california Sep 21 02:49:07 near LA Sep 21 02:49:10 k Sep 21 02:49:10 like 15 minutes out Sep 21 02:49:10 Santa Monica Sep 21 02:49:16 Santa Monica is impossible to get to Sep 21 02:49:25 I'd be willing to fly to anywhere cheap. Sep 21 02:49:34 not so Sep 21 02:49:36 peeps on the east coast, could you/would you make it to a conference on the west coast? Sep 21 02:49:45 no Sep 21 02:49:46 gltron: Dresden (which is, accidentally, also the title of a small pygame game I've started to write) Sep 21 02:49:47 you have to drive down the 10! Sep 21 02:49:48 doubtful. Sep 21 02:49:50 it's always packed Sep 21 02:49:50 Bakemono: nope Sep 21 02:49:52 ...how about New Orleans, LA.. Sep 21 02:50:00 Dresden is all bombed out and shit Sep 21 02:50:08 new orleans... Sep 21 02:50:10 not a bad idea Sep 21 02:50:12 no, it's flodded :) Sep 21 02:50:13 too seedy Sep 21 02:50:17 err, flooded Sep 21 02:50:18 not a bad idea at all Sep 21 02:50:19 highest murder rate in a counter Sep 21 02:50:20 country Sep 21 02:50:23 Bakemono, I would love to go to cali, but it's a bit expensive, I think I could do LA Sep 21 02:50:24 with a bunch of geeks with laptops Sep 21 02:50:25 good idea Sep 21 02:50:26 yeah, and it's in the south Sep 21 02:50:35 so our Nubian developers wouldn't be happy Sep 21 02:50:36 that is, louisiana Sep 21 02:50:38 josef: the water has gone. now expect the earthquake Sep 21 02:50:41 * Chunky_Ks humbly mumbles "LA" Sep 21 02:50:41 cool Sep 21 02:50:46 P1E: priceline Sep 21 02:50:46 Chunky_Ks++ Sep 21 02:50:47 * zakk thinks PA is great Sep 21 02:50:55 especially, south eastern PA Sep 21 02:50:56 can I get all the i.o trolls to shut up Sep 21 02:50:57 ? Sep 21 02:50:59 please? Sep 21 02:50:59 yeah Sep 21 02:51:04 * zakk isn't trolling Sep 21 02:51:08 publish a title, then you get to talk Sep 21 02:51:14 hah Sep 21 02:51:27 zakk: didn't say you were Sep 21 02:51:31 and orbital sniper doesn't count Sep 21 02:51:37 orbital eunuchs sniper does! Sep 21 02:51:42 okay, that counts Sep 21 02:51:45 * zakk bows Sep 21 02:51:53 so where is the conference? Sep 21 02:52:02 Santa Monica, CA Sep 21 02:52:07 LWCE at the icculus.org booth Sep 21 02:52:18 admission is $300 Sep 21 02:52:26 free beer though! Sep 21 02:52:44 --- Bakemono sets mode +m #osgc Sep 21 02:52:46 <-- benDOTc (benc@128.143.137.219) has left #osgc Sep 21 02:52:48 --- Bakemono gives channel operator status to P1E Sep 21 02:53:05 ok Sep 21 02:53:08 some order please Sep 21 02:53:13 P1E: feel free to +v peeps Sep 21 02:53:33 <-- Zongo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Sep 21 02:53:37 or not Sep 21 02:53:50 gimme a second to gather my thoughts Sep 21 02:53:51 --> Zongo (~chaneze@t1.intrinsic.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:53:56 --- P1E gives voice to alriddoch Sep 21 02:53:59 bah Sep 21 02:53:59 --- P1E gives voice to bear Sep 21 02:54:00 beat me too it Sep 21 02:54:12 --- P1E gives voice to josef Sep 21 02:54:32 --- P1E gives voice to gltron Sep 21 02:54:40 ahhh Sep 21 02:54:41 sorry I'm being slow guys Sep 21 02:54:47 indeed Sep 21 02:54:59 --- Bakemono gives voice to paulz Sep 21 02:54:59 --- Bakemono gives voice to pille Sep 21 02:55:05 --- Bakemono gives voice to jdorje Sep 21 02:55:22 it sounds like there may need to be west/east/eu meetings to get a feel for the people and go from there Sep 21 02:55:28 <-- jvalenzu (jvalenzu@user-11fa80m.dsl.mindspring.com) has left #osgc Sep 21 02:55:37 <-- zakk (~zakk@maxtnt03-258.phlpa.fast.net) has left #osgc Sep 21 02:55:44 that's a definate possibility Sep 21 02:55:46 bah Sep 21 02:55:48 Am I correct in thinking that flights across the USA are pretty expensive? Sep 21 02:55:49 screw it Sep 21 02:55:51 --- Bakemono sets mode -m #osgc Sep 21 02:56:17 sorry we had to mod the channel, folks. but we need to discuss the fact that we want to have a con, not our daily important issues Sep 21 02:56:18 if we want to have 2 different US conferences, I'd like to get to both Sep 21 02:56:22 any flight in the use less than 7 days is expensive Sep 21 02:56:30 alriddoch - I can fly halfway across the country for $200. Sep 21 02:56:30 and so order returns Sep 21 02:56:39 --> jvalenzu (jvalenzu@user-11fa80m.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 02:56:48 and so chaos returns Sep 21 02:56:55 P1E: I can fly from here to San Jose for that. Sep 21 02:56:56 that isn't very generous Sep 21 02:56:58 anyways Sep 21 02:57:01 I'm a valuable resources Sep 21 02:57:13 alriddoch - so you see the problem =] Sep 21 02:57:17 * Bakemono has no idea what jvalenzu is talking about Sep 21 02:57:21 I was about to +v you Sep 21 02:57:25 but you left the room Sep 21 02:57:26 oh, thanks Sep 21 02:57:35 Bakemono: what's your 3 year projection? ROI? Sep 21 02:57:42 ROI? Sep 21 02:57:45 doh Sep 21 02:57:48 <-- raistlin has quit () Sep 21 02:57:51 .... Sep 21 02:57:54 something i said? Sep 21 02:58:01 alright. everyone hold up. Sep 21 02:58:05 ROI = Return On Investment Sep 21 02:58:12 ah Sep 21 02:58:14 what we've established here so far is this: we want to have a con. Sep 21 02:58:19 yes Sep 21 02:58:36 if there's anyone that does not want to have a con, we really don't want to discuss why NOT to have a con at this time. Sep 21 02:58:37 there'll have to be at least 2, maybe 3 Sep 21 02:58:51 gltron: seperate cons? Sep 21 02:58:55 we've established the need for at least a con in north america, and one in europe Sep 21 02:58:57 or people? Sep 21 02:59:04 and possibly even one for each side of north america. Sep 21 02:59:10 Bakemono: the location issue Sep 21 02:59:30 * Bakemono would prefer having one US con Sep 21 02:59:39 is there any advantage in synchronizing the date? Sep 21 02:59:42 an LA sounds like an excellent idea Sep 21 02:59:48 gltron: not really Sep 21 02:59:51 LA as in Louisiana? Sep 21 02:59:55 P1E: yes Sep 21 03:00:06 we could have video conference action going on between the cons if they were synced, that's about it Sep 21 03:00:11 gltron: no if some people want to attend both Sep 21 03:00:12 well unlike in europe - you will never get the east and west coast peoples to agree on a common site :( Sep 21 03:00:15 gltron: if there were 2 US cons I prefer they were NOT at the same time Sep 21 03:00:20 because of what Theefer said Sep 21 03:01:08 is there anyone that objects, within a good amount of reason, to having a con somewhere in the central timezone for the US con? Sep 21 03:01:27 (or at least near it) Sep 21 03:02:13 this could be anywhere, clearly. Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri... Sep 21 03:02:30 is there any idea about a possible time frame? this year, or early next year? Sep 21 03:02:49 I think since we're not even organised, this year is not viable. Sep 21 03:02:59 most con staff spend about a year organizing a con. Sep 21 03:03:17 I would prefer it being next year Sep 21 03:03:26 it probably makes sense to keep any european con around the same time (+/- 2 weeks or so) to maximize visibility Sep 21 03:03:34 gltron - agreed. Sep 21 03:03:37 yes Sep 21 03:03:39 pille: you were at Fuadec. How did that go down? Sep 21 03:03:45 visibility ? Sep 21 03:04:03 Theefer: people know it exists Sep 21 03:04:07 how much would it cost to get space to hold the conference? Sep 21 03:04:13 Theefer - yes, so people in europe don't say "when is that con happening?" Sep 21 03:04:15 and what fund raising options do we have? Sep 21 03:04:16 oh right. I agree Sep 21 03:04:37 --> treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-066-179.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 03:04:44 Bakemono - the most popular fund option is clearly to charge people to come. most people will pay a nominal fee to get in Sep 21 03:05:03 The main options are registration/attendance costs and sponsorship. Sep 21 03:05:04 what's nominal? :) Sep 21 03:05:12 sponsorship seems relatively unlikely. Sep 21 03:05:17 tag along with one of the perl meetings?? Sep 21 03:05:22 but both could be used at the same time. Sep 21 03:05:25 we should provide a valuable service to those that pay to enter, however. Sep 21 03:05:27 As Al said, universities are a good choice. Some could even provide room during semesters. At least most OSS-related meetings I've been to were at such locations. Sep 21 03:05:54 you need a good local contact though Sep 21 03:05:57 what would we like to have at a conference? Sep 21 03:06:00 we will probably not need to take over something multiple sizes of a hotel or anything. probably a large hall of some sort will do fine for our first con. Sep 21 03:06:01 a couple tables? Sep 21 03:06:04 a fridge or 2? Sep 21 03:06:08 maybe with a few small rooms. Sep 21 03:06:09 <-- Zongo has quit ("'evening 'vrybody") Sep 21 03:06:10 possibly a microwave Sep 21 03:06:14 :) Sep 21 03:06:16 Univerisities can often provide cheap accomodation too, but only our of term/semester. Sep 21 03:06:21 Think about that you need PCs, a projector maybe, ... Sep 21 03:06:45 Heh, I slept in several gym halls already (covered by slashdot once even) Sep 21 03:06:54 --> malcolm (yoda@139-142-113-182.dialup.islandnet.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 03:07:12 <-- gltron has quit ("user has fallen asleep on the keyboard") Sep 21 03:07:15 we'll need all of the things for people to present their information, and people will probably need to BYOB (both with boxen and beer, I'm sure) Sep 21 03:07:57 --> ajr_ (~ajr@host213-122-148-126.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #osgc Sep 21 03:08:01 we should consider having four things: Sep 21 03:08:02 1. panels Sep 21 03:08:07 2. presentations Sep 21 03:08:12 <-- alriddoch has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: ajr_!~ajr@host213-122-148-126.in-addr.btopenworld.com))) Sep 21 03:08:15 --- ajr_ is now known as alriddoch Sep 21 03:08:20 3. internet access Sep 21 03:08:22 4. fun stuff Sep 21 03:08:31 back Sep 21 03:08:33 obviously, any of these things can be intermixed. Sep 21 03:08:39 yeah Sep 21 03:08:51 but if we're a gaming con, I believe a gaming room is necessary. Sep 21 03:08:54 1 and 2 are the most important, and I think 2 is the most important. Sep 21 03:09:03 someone earlier mentioned that developers should come prepared to present work they have Sep 21 03:09:11 I think people should have a chance to rattle about whatever they want to rattle about. that's a presentation. Sep 21 03:09:15 P1E: I think information exchange is the emphasis Sep 21 03:09:21 There should also be organised opportunity for socialising. Sep 21 03:09:25 I think people should be able to discuss and debate. that's panels. Sep 21 03:09:28 I agree with bear Sep 21 03:09:30 well Sep 21 03:09:41 =] bear and alriddoch know what's going on. Sep 21 03:09:42 that and making relations Sep 21 03:09:47 bah Sep 21 03:09:51 * Bakemono is slow Sep 21 03:10:03 the fun stuff can include anything from a gaming room to social events at night; drinking parties, dances, etc. Sep 21 03:10:20 indeed Sep 21 03:10:23 ddr Sep 21 03:10:25 :) Sep 21 03:10:27 drunk ddr Sep 21 03:10:38 and I don't mean the drunk mode Sep 21 03:10:39 I'm sure we can organise a drink drink revolution tournament Sep 21 03:10:44 actually, I can't drink Sep 21 03:10:57 Bakemono - but surely it would be fun to watch people that can Sep 21 03:10:57 P1E: I think roundtables are more valuable than panels. Sep 21 03:11:23 alriddoch - round tables are good, but I don't think we should emphasize on any one type of panel or presentation. Sep 21 03:11:38 mainly because we want to cover as many bases as we can for people that might want to attend. Sep 21 03:12:13 It should not be held in a too formal manner - the target group is mostly young people, not 60+ yo unix gurus Sep 21 03:12:17 not everyone agrees on a certain perspective of panel or presentation or even fun thing, but it's okay to be different, we should go ahead and let people discuss what they want however they want Sep 21 03:12:39 Young people also happen to have the money to pay for such a conference Sep 21 03:12:44 At least, they used to. Sep 21 03:12:53 yes, young people do tend to have mo.... wait a minute, no we don't =] Sep 21 03:13:05 The standard format for a conference is that people submit abstracts or proposals for sessions. At academic conferences their submissions are peer reviewed, but at a less formal conference the abstract can simply be a way of ensuring that speakers are well prepared. Sep 21 03:13:12 then again, this may be the sign I'm growing old, no more money =] Sep 21 03:13:32 alriddoch - agreed. I think the latter is our way-to-go Sep 21 03:14:00 for goodness sakes, guys, we're having a gaming con, not a business meeting Sep 21 03:14:12 alriddoch: Or at least get a little feedback to make sure they won't talk for one single guy ... Sep 21 03:14:24 people should be allowed to take care of busines if they so please, but let's have some good times too Sep 21 03:14:45 * P1E may have to disconnect soon Sep 21 03:15:06 <-- P1E has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 21 03:15:29 Theefer: True, but we do not need to be especially picky. We should give minority interest developers a chance to present their views. Sep 21 03:15:37 --> Twingy (Twingy@pcp130963pcs.medfrd01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #osgc Sep 21 03:15:39 --> P1E (~tgz@209.96.186.69) has joined #osgc Sep 21 03:15:56 <-- treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-066-179.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) has left #osgc Sep 21 03:15:58 <-- Twingy (Twingy@pcp130963pcs.medfrd01.nj.comcast.net) has left #osgc Sep 21 03:16:01 speaking of disconnects, ha, this connection bites =] Sep 21 03:16:39 okay, so earlier I heard no aversions to a central US location. should we go ahead and assume for the current time that we're going to have it somewhere in the middle of the states (the US con at least)? Sep 21 03:16:59 That sounds reasonable. Sep 21 03:17:27 I think this is the best choice, since it gives us the option of the most people being able to make it inexpensively Sep 21 03:17:36 damn phone Sep 21 03:17:37 if university is the key, then find out who has connections Sep 21 03:18:08 okay, so we will have to look for a central-US uni that is willing to host such a convention. Sep 21 03:18:24 once we find one, we will have a location, and we'll discuss where to hit later. Sep 21 03:18:40 we have a timeframe, which is basically "some time next year" Sep 21 03:18:50 but at least we have a basic idea. Sep 21 03:19:12 is anyone against summer, since this is the best time to find uni hotspots? Sep 21 03:19:20 Don't make it too close to the GDC. I can only afford so much at once, and I think the same will apply to most people. Sep 21 03:19:22 I've no objections Sep 21 03:19:32 THough i don't know how many people here will be at the GDC. Sep 21 03:19:50 <-- jms has quit ("moist") Sep 21 03:19:50 alriddoch - I too plan on attending GDC, probably crashing with dan, so I'm sure we can try and space it out. Sep 21 03:19:52 * Bakemono isn't going to GDB Sep 21 03:19:55 GDC, rather Sep 21 03:20:16 well, i've got to go Sep 21 03:20:21 ? Sep 21 03:20:24 --- paulz is now known as paulzAway Sep 21 03:20:28 oh Sep 21 03:20:30 later Sep 21 03:20:50 okay, so we're working on a summer timeframe at a central uni. Sep 21 03:20:54 yes Sep 21 03:21:05 when's mardi gras? Sep 21 03:21:14 * malcolm bails Sep 21 03:21:15 <-- malcolm has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") Sep 21 03:21:26 Bakemono - springtime, from what I remember. Sep 21 03:22:00 ok then Sep 21 03:22:04 * Bakemono has some things to do Sep 21 03:22:11 have to go pick up some stuff and make some food Sep 21 03:22:18 how old is everyone in this room? Sep 21 03:22:32 okay, we should establish a meeting again for more serious discussion of where and when. Sep 21 03:22:34 Ok, we may not have made any conclusions, but there has been some good discusion. Sep 21 03:22:45 * alriddoch is very very old Sep 21 03:22:57 alriddoch - yeah, aren't you in your 20's or something? =] Sep 21 03:23:01 * bear is older than alriddoch Sep 21 03:23:16 P1E: Only for a short while longer. Sep 21 03:23:18 P1E: yes, should we hit slashdot to tell people about this next meeting? Sep 21 03:23:34 I don't think we should punch slashdot until we have solid times and dates and locations. Sep 21 03:23:40 ok Sep 21 03:23:43 that's the kind of information they're going to want. Sep 21 03:23:49 Bakemono: I think there should be some summary page about what was said, and all Sep 21 03:23:50 we don't need too many people anyways Sep 21 03:23:51 Bakemono: Only when the time if right for people to sign up. Sep 21 03:23:55 * bear wouldn't hit slashdot at *all* Sep 21 03:23:55 and that's the kind of thing we should solidify quickly, as well. Sep 21 03:23:55 we just need some people to do some research Sep 21 03:24:07 Theefer: someone was going to write up one Sep 21 03:24:11 and if you hit slashdot, there will be 200 persons in this room ;) Sep 21 03:24:12 basically what we have left, folks, is we all need to do some homework. Sep 21 03:24:33 P1E: agreed Sep 21 03:24:38 I know someone that could contact LSU and see if we could do things there. Sep 21 03:24:43 Bakemono: Fine. And is there any url or website related to osgc ? Sep 21 03:24:46 and also UIUC. Sep 21 03:24:53 Theefer: I'll create one Sep 21 03:24:55 we do need a website, fast. Sep 21 03:25:04 Its pointless to have an irc meeting publicised on slashdot. It would be a complete pharce. Sep 21 03:25:05 Bakemono - do you have a place to host it? Sep 21 03:25:09 yes Sep 21 03:25:12 is it fast? Sep 21 03:25:18 not terribly Sep 21 03:25:21 you got something good? Sep 21 03:25:23 P1E: As long as not slashdotted ;) Sep 21 03:25:43 * Bakemono is assuming osgc.org is owned Sep 21 03:25:46 well, now that we've got all these people here, does anyone have a fast webserver they wouldn't mind us pointing at? Sep 21 03:25:56 heh Sep 21 03:26:02 Registrant: Sep 21 03:26:03 Ohio Space Grant Consortium (OSGC2-DOM) Sep 21 03:26:11 damn Sep 21 03:26:13 we can find a url later. Sep 21 03:26:16 let's find a server. Sep 21 03:26:16 yeah Sep 21 03:26:25 there's no real need for a url atm Sep 21 03:26:27 err Sep 21 03:26:28 domain name Sep 21 03:26:39 bear, how's the worldforge stuff? do we have a good load capability there, or should we talk to gabe, possibly? Sep 21 03:26:55 I could sneak it onto icculus.org :) Sep 21 03:26:58 Setting up a local load balancer which points to various dynamic hosts is much more clever in the case of slashdotting. Sep 21 03:27:00 <-- Teh_Lonewolf has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 21 03:27:07 and where can we get the url of the website when it's done ? are you living in this channel ? :) Sep 21 03:27:12 www stuff is not related to gabe - would have to clear it Sep 21 03:27:16 Theefer: I am Sep 21 03:27:18 it'll be in the topic Sep 21 03:27:21 well Sep 21 03:27:21 great Sep 21 03:27:23 you guys talk about this Sep 21 03:27:26 I have to go Sep 21 03:27:32 later Sep 21 03:27:32 Bakemono - do you want me to take over? Sep 21 03:27:34 good talkin' to you guys Sep 21 03:27:40 P1E: take over? Sep 21 03:27:46 this meeting for now Sep 21 03:27:48 sure Sep 21 03:27:59 okay, have a good evening Sep 21 03:28:03 you too Sep 21 03:28:04 later Sep 21 03:28:05 <-- Bakemono has quit ("Client Exiting") Sep 21 03:28:32 good night (3:22 am) ... I gotta go to bed too I think ! Sep 21 03:28:42 okay folks, so maybe we should also find some webspace, too. Sep 21 03:28:47 Missing late night training I'd say :) Sep 21 03:28:50 Theefer - I'll publish the next meeting time here. Sep 21 03:29:19 you european guys, how many hours earlier is good? three? Sep 21 03:29:27 P1E: Fine. Hope we'll find some date for europe too ! Sep 21 03:29:32 Okay, I'll check back here, and if I manage to get a writeup sorted, I'll post the URL here too. Sep 21 03:29:40 yeah 3 should be fine Sep 21 03:29:48 4 should be great. Sep 21 03:29:51 Some hours earlier would certainly be nice. Sep 21 03:29:54 Oops, 3. Sep 21 03:30:00 3-4 hours. Sep 21 03:30:05 and a weekend time, you said? Sep 21 03:30:31 I only said that for the benefit of West coast people who might still be at work before 1700 Sep 21 03:30:49 how about 21:00 GMT next Sunday? Sep 21 03:31:08 or maybe 22:00 Sep 21 03:31:09 Sounds doable. Sep 21 03:31:22 Also sounds doable. Sep 21 03:31:27 yep, since I'm on holiday ;) Sep 21 03:31:33 fine with me, if nothing unusual will happen. Sep 21 03:31:38 that leaves it at 4-5 for the eastcoast people, around noon to one for pacific+beyond us, and all you europeans can still get in around midnight, not too late Sep 21 03:32:07 good for me Sep 21 03:32:09 okay then. Sep 21 03:32:12 and our homework is: Sep 21 03:32:49 find a central location for your region (US or EU) at a uni, and see if they're willing to host, or even interested in hosting a convention anytime during the summer Sep 21 03:33:08 Most unis host conferences. Sep 21 03:33:33 alriddoch - true, but finding one that would actually WANT to accommodate us might be a good thing to look for? Sep 21 03:34:03 It has to be checked certainly. Sep 21 03:34:10 excellent. Sep 21 03:34:40 and we should not rule out that some unis may even be stock full and not able to accept a con, even if they are gracious to receive us Sep 21 03:35:28 if anyone plans on contacting unis, good information to have would be what they can offer us, if there is cost involved, and what times are available. Sep 21 03:35:52 --- jdorje is now known as jdorje_away Sep 21 03:35:53 let them know that we are currently at the investigative stage. Sep 21 03:35:58 There will definitly be cost. Sep 21 03:36:57 okay. Sep 21 03:37:25 on top of this, if anyone wants to investigate places that can host our website, we're all for finding a place that can handle a little stress. Sep 21 03:37:56 So I figure it would be wise to gather suggestions from other gamedevs? Sep 21 03:38:05 josef - surely. Sep 21 03:38:15 I challenged a friend on the stress his server could handle, but I'm not sure he'd survive to a /. effect if there should be one ;) Sep 21 03:38:40 if no one wants to research place/time/etc. then feel free to brainstorm ideas for panels, presentations, people that we can invite, and how to advertise and plan events. Sep 21 03:38:42 josef: many OS devs in Europe ? Sep 21 03:39:07 okay, it's time for me to leave. Sep 21 03:39:23 me too Sep 21 03:39:26 good nite. Sep 21 03:39:30 next meeting will be 22:00 GMT on sunday the 29th Sep 21 03:39:47 gnite! Sep 21 03:39:48 [ put it in the topic ;) ] Sep 21 03:40:00 Theefer: I don't know about general numbers, but kde-games-devel has e.g. 100+ subscribers, most of them seem to be from Europe Sep 21 03:40:09 Theefer: About half the WF devs are from Europe - used to be higher. Sep 21 03:40:11 --- P1E has changed the topic to: log: http://mindx.dyndns.org/ggz/osgc/ | next meeting 22:00 GMT, sunday 29 sep Sep 21 03:40:16 later! Sep 21 03:40:20 <-- P1E has quit ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") Sep 21 03:40:29 Oh great :) Sep 21 03:40:46 and there is nevrax I think, and Arianne ... Sep 21 03:41:03 please tell me the only two channel ops left without freeing up the channel? Sep 21 03:42:39 Nevrax is in Paris, and miguel from Arianne is in Spain. Sep 21 03:42:58 There is also Parsec in Germany, which may or may not be Open Source. Sep 21 03:43:02 Meeting near the Atlantic would please me. Sep 21 03:43:27 Parsec was free-as-in-beer last I checked. Sep 21 03:43:44 Lets leave further discusion on the con till next meeting. Sep 21 03:43:55 yeah let's have some sleep :) Sep 21 03:44:06 or usleep Sep 21 03:44:07 josef: Parsec may release source when the release the final game. Sep 21 03:44:14 Alkini alriddoch Sep 21 03:44:21 I spoke to a Parsec guy a GDCE just under a month ago. Sep 21 03:44:29 josef: I should manage to go anywhere in central europe ... Sep 21 03:44:56 alriddoch: I'm glad to hear that. Sep 21 03:45:42 time for me to sleep Sep 21 03:45:58 * bear hibernates Sep 21 03:46:22 bye all Sep 21 03:46:30 g'night Sep 21 03:46:39 night al Sep 21 03:47:01 <-- Theefer has quit ("Fortune !")